Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

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Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by HypnoDude on August 11th 2009, 4:43 pm

Today on CNN.com I found the following article. It prompted me to post and see if this can generate a bit of discussion. I do understand this may erupt some emotion, but I am sure since we are all adults enough to be able to debate/discuss/share those emotions in a respectful manner. Thank You

Is this a violation of "Separation of Church and State?"

CNN.com wrote:
CNN) -- Religious groups in favor of health care reform have launched a national campaign to offset the loud opposition to President Obama's plan to overhaul the nation's health care system, organizers announced.

"This is as much a crisis of faith as it is a crisis of health care," said the Rev. John Hay Jr., senior pastor of West Morris Street Free Methodist Church in Indianapolis, Indiana.

"We just believe there is a better way."

He and others spoke in a telephone news conference Monday announcing the campaign.

"As a pastor, I believe access to health care is a profoundly moral issue," said the Rev. Stevie Wakes of Olivet Institutional Baptist Church in Kansas City, Kansas.

The campaign, called "40 days for Health Reform," includes a national television advertisement, a "sermon weekend," prayer meetings and a nationwide call-in with Obama on August 19, organizers said.

Prayer meetings emphasizing health care as a moral issue were taking place Tuesday in 45 cities across 18 states, organizers said. They expected about 4,000 people to participate.

"Healing and health are fundamental religious issues," said the Rev. Jim Wallis of Sojourners, one of the sponsors of the campaign along with PICO National Network, Faith in Public Life, Faithful America and Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good.

Wallis stressed that participants in the campaign are not going to weigh in on particular policy questions. "It isn't political in a partisan way," he said. "This is a fundamental moral issue. ... You're going to hear the moral drumbeat of the faith community."

Rabbi David Saperstein of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, who also spoke on the conference call, said the current system "doesn't work for everyone."

Other groups, such as the Christian Coalition of America and the Family Research Council, are strongly opposed to Democratic proposals to overhaul the health care system, saying, among other things, that they would lead to government-funded abortion.

"We don't want abortion to enter this debate and sabotage health care reform," Wallis said. He noted the legislation now being discussed on Capitol Hill is far from a final version.

Opponents of health care reform proposals have confronted U.S. lawmakers at town hall meetings in recent days, drawing heavy media attention with their boisterous protests.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/11/health.care.religious.groups/index.html


What are your thoughts?
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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by 23luda23 on August 11th 2009, 6:28 pm

US Government represent people of the United States and not religious organizations. Correct me if I am wrong , the only entity that can violate separation of Church and State is the Government itself, by making a decision in favor of the particular religion/s. I believe organizing a campaign is within the law of freedom of speech. Health care reform will benefit the majority of people http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2009/02/24/sot.obama.sotn.health.care.cnn , however No policy should in any way violate freedom of religion, freedom of choice or any other rights of any one person. I personally value All Life and teach my children the same. Free will is God's gift to all and it is up to every individual how they use it. I give to Caesar what is Caesars and I give to God what is God's the best way I know how.

:00:
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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by Wind-Dancer on August 11th 2009, 10:23 pm

I fully believe that no religious organization should have a say in or object to equal health coverage for everyone. I believe that all people should be able to have medical care regardless of the ability to pay. Our health system in our united states is in dire need of reform. Our elderly suffer when they fall into that gray area where they arent old enough to have medicare or medicaid. Yet they lack the funds to see a doctor regurally. They cannot even afford to buy the medicines that are prescribed by emergency room doctors. Futhermore some emergency rooms are requiring a payment up front before you can even be seen there. I pray that the religious organizations are not allowed to prevent the passing of this country's medical relief program. Let the churches take care of religious needs of those who seek it , but please dont forget those that need health care and cant afford it. Let those who will benefit from his health care plan feel some relief from the burdens upon them.

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by Spirit-Being on August 12th 2009, 12:58 pm

These few church leaders must feel they have much power, why do they get involved in political matters outside the church? what kind of example do they teach us? What does it matter anyway right... I see throughout history church leaders have been very powerful in decision making in regards to politics. How can they promote peace if the few church leaders are being so opinionated. providing medical for people that cannot afford it, will this change any spiritual leaders position or influence on people? How many people will watch this on the news and read it here and say that these few church leaders are right? Maybe they need to appoint one of these church leaders to President. For me i must stay on the fence on this one, for i do not know the true intentions of either party. Good Post

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by parrotlover100 on August 12th 2009, 1:11 pm

I for myself don't understand enough about this health care plan of Obamas to comment either way.However i do feel and felt that he has the peoples needs first in his heart.That he isn't just sitting up there to make himself rich.And now i want to question why the church feels this health plan is in there policy????why are they getting involved????Wind-Dancer is right let them deal with there religious stuff only and stay out of politics.Interesting debate this will be.

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by d-knots on August 12th 2009, 7:17 pm

i believe everyone can have a say
because we all live here and
we are the people...
:HrnoEvl:

that was just a part and a ploy
to push buttons...LOL
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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by Wind-Dancer on August 13th 2009, 6:45 pm

The church is suppose to help people. So why are they so against helping people that are below a certain income level? If they are against abortion, ( which i am too ) then reccomend a ammendment to the program. I dont feel they should be against the whole bill. Just my opinion. Very Happy

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by HypnoDude on August 15th 2009, 12:31 pm

I do believe in a Change in this countries ways of Health Care Coverage ..... Not so much a Change in the Health Care itself.

Our Political Leaders, including the President... are tyring to make this about the coverage to sell their plan. However the more people dig and search, they discover there are MANY hidden aspects of this bill which may drastically affect our Health Care. There is a difference.

The Presidents sheer arrogance displayed towards those who do not support his ideas and projected Changes is appalling to say the least in my opinion.

However for the Religious Groups to attempt to step in and exert their power (Religion is the Most POWERFUL Modality on Earth) in association with Political agenda, is crossing the line in my opinion.

I believe the President is attempting to use that Modality as way of enhancing the hypnotizing power of his own agenda. He understands this power that the Religious Factions have in this country and is using it (manipulating) solely as means to achieve his goal. His shere arrogance towards those who do not support his ways is appalling to say the least. Anyway....

I have been learning there is alot of scary things hidden inside of this plan and that the "ethically charged" lawmakers...ahem... are concentrating on the fractions of this plan which may be beneficial as I also believe they as well are skilled practitioners of manipulation.

People need to educate themselves on this bill, and what it means to them. Myself included.

{*Side Note* Definition of Modality: Anything that attempts to control or influence human behavior by Modifying the belief systems.}
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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by HypnoDude on August 15th 2009, 12:45 pm

When it comes to Healing, yes Religion/Church plays a VERY POWERFUL and POSITIVE aspect in the healing process. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I belive the churchhas its place, just as the Government has its place. To attempt to blend or mix the two, is crossing the line.

I myself am against abortion, but to use that as a basis to support/not support such a grey plan (meaning too much unknown about it) isnt right. Because that only further enhances the ignorance of the general public in regards to the plan.

Would it be appropriate to Pray in church over all this,,, why sure! To blend the President into the Religious Groups agenda in relation to this plan, I dont know, it just gives a "different air" about it.

This may be "Left Field" but the thought just 'came in' and I will share. Its almost as if the REligous Groups are "Lobbying" the Government, which in my opinion is highly inappropriate. Religious Groups serve a purpose, and each have their right to belong to the group, support it and uphold its beliefs. That is cool, but when theat group attempts to use its 'power' on the masses to accomplish something outside their appropriate lines...well that just leaves much more for debate LOL
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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by Wind-Dancer on August 15th 2009, 6:30 pm

AMEN AND I FULLY AGREE.

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

Post by Spirit-Being on August 16th 2009, 11:59 am

This has been a very interesting discussion and i have learned alot through everyones comments. Thanks Guys Very Happy

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Re: Does this CROSS the Line or just FADE it a wee tiny tad??

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